Horse Slaughter Bill and High Gas Prices

Good points but you left out a few very relevant issues. There are not 90,000 unwanted horses. First you did not address the large percentage – at minimum, 30,000 – of stolen horses that are slaughtered. Those cannot be considered not wanted. Second, many of the horses at auction would have gone to caring owners but were outbid by the kill buyers. Those cannot be considered, unwanted. In addition, you did not address irresponsible owners. If they cannot afford to care for a horse, why do they keep breeding and bringing more horses into the world? It has caught up to them and shutting down the kill industry is not what is at fault. The majority of these horses have brought income to their owners. They were wanted when they bought them and to not pay $200 to have them humanely euthanized (as with dogs and cats) is despicable. Perhaps the owners should have been required to be with their horses when they were “processed” to see what they were doing to them.

There is so much pro slaughter propaganda being hurled about that is nothing more than scare tactics. All the unwanted horses wandering the streets… Every one of those claims has been investigated and proven inaccurate. There are hundreds and hundreds of rescues and humane organizations that are available. The abuse and neglect has nothing to do with slaughter. That is a separate, criminal issue and was prevalent when slaughter WAS an option.

It’s time to say good-bye to this barbaric foreign owned industry that gives us nothing but a black eye. Horses are companion animals and are not raised as food animals. Cows do not run in the Kentucky Derby. Cows do not carry our mounted police. Statues of soldiers are atop horses, not cows. Horses work, perform and are used for therapy. To allow foreign owned companies to slaughter our horses to feed the elite in foreign countries, not pay tax and send the profits overseas is about as un-American as it gets.

Good points but you left out a few very relevant issues. There are not 90,000 unwanted horses. First you did not address the large percentage – at minimum, 30,000 – of stolen horses that are slaughtered. Those cannot be considered not wanted. Second, many of the horses at auction would have gone to caring owners but were outbid by the kill buyers. Those cannot be considered, unwanted. In addition, you did not address irresponsible owners. If they cannot afford to care for a horse, why do they keep breeding and bringing more horses into the world? It has caught up to them and shutting down the kill industry is not what is at fault. The majority of these horses have brought income to their owners. They were wanted when they bought them and to not pay $200 to have them humanely euthanized (as with dogs and cats) is despicable. Perhaps the owners should have been required to be with their horses when they were “processed” to see what they were doing to them.

There is so much pro slaughter propaganda being hurled about that is nothing more than scare tactics. All the unwanted horses wandering the streets… Every one of those claims has been investigated and proven inaccurate. There are hundreds and hundreds of rescues and humane organizations that are available. The abuse and neglect has nothing to do with slaughter. That is a separate, criminal issue and was prevalent when slaughter WAS an option.

It’s time to say good-bye to this barbaric foreign owned industry that gives us nothing but a black eye. Horses are companion animals and are not raised as food animals. Cows do not run in the Kentucky Derby. Cows do not carry our mounted police. Statues of soldiers are atop horses, not cows. Horses work, perform and are used for therapy. To allow foreign owned companies to slaughter our horses to feed the elite in foreign countries, not pay tax and send the profits overseas is about as un-American as it gets.

Vicki, here is the other thing I did not mention about the 90,000 slaughtered…many of them are transported from Canada to the US to be slaughtered. that happens in Illinois at the Dekalb plant all the time. Unfortunately the only hard factual number is the actual number being slaughtered each year which as I stated has decreased with no increase in unwanted horses so I agree with you that the numbers are misleading.

The point I am trying to make in this article is that there will be unwanted horses and it will be a difficult situation to place these animals and or take them away from irresponsible owners.

thank you for your comments and your passion.

Vicki, here is the other thing I did not mention about the 90,000 slaughtered…many of them are transported from Canada to the US to be slaughtered. that happens in Illinois at the Dekalb plant all the time. Unfortunately the only hard factual number is the actual number being slaughtered each year which as I stated has decreased with no increase in unwanted horses so I agree with you that the numbers are misleading.

The point I am trying to make in this article is that there will be unwanted horses and it will be a difficult situation to place these animals and or take them away from irresponsible owners.

thank you for your comments and your passion.

Oh one other point, it costs a lot more than $200 to euthanize a horse if you do not have the means to bury one on your property. At a minimum $500. The $200 is just for the vet to come out and put the horse down. Disposal is another issue and with the decrease in the number of renderers and people willing to pick up the deceased animals the cost is just going to increase. So unless you are able to bury your horse on your own property that number is skewed as well.

What is interesting is that if the irresponsible owner does not have the monetary means to feed a horse what makes you think they have the means to euthanize one humanely?

Oh one other point, it costs a lot more than $200 to euthanize a horse if you do not have the means to bury one on your property. At a minimum $500. The $200 is just for the vet to come out and put the horse down. Disposal is another issue and with the decrease in the number of renderers and people willing to pick up the deceased animals the cost is just going to increase. So unless you are able to bury your horse on your own property that number is skewed as well.

What is interesting is that if the irresponsible owner does not have the monetary means to feed a horse what makes you think they have the means to euthanize one humanely?

Hi! Another good point – if there are so many unwanted horses, why are we importing them!! No argument here on the irresponsible owners but to subject their horse to the inhumane transport and horrific death is not the answer. No doubt, there will be issues. There were abuse/neglect issues when slaughter WAS an option. There are hundreds of rescues and humane organizations that are ramping up to accept the truly unwanted animals. Last month, KY Equine Humane Center opened its doors and will euthanize the horses if they cannot be adopted. Expect to see more of these that operate more like dog and cat shelters. There are wonderful organizations like Old Friends that actually monitor at-risk thoroughbreds and bring them to Old Friends when they reach the end of their careers. Pure Thoughts is another excellent organization that takes the horses (mostly foals) before they’re in a slaughter situation. Miracle Horse Rescue, Rolling Dog Ranch for disabled animals and on and on….close to 700 at last count.

Did you hear about the mare that delivered a foal recently on the kill house floor at Cavel moments before she was going into the kill box? She should never have gone to slaughter but the regulated industry is not regulated. This week, there was one day that the inspector wasn’t there at all. They were still using double decker haulers that were banned in December.

Your point is well taken and that is a legitimate issue but I don’t think anyone has an answer. The over breeding has caught up with them. I can only hope that they realize the kill houses shutting down isn’t the problem. Many are just callous and when the horse can no longer earn, they discard them like an old shoe. Money isn’t always the issue as the pro slaughter groups would like everyone to believe. I’d like to think that people selling horses will make sure the new owner knows what he’s getting into, just as rescues do when adopting out their horses. Another great source is caring DVMs like you. Of course, by the time you see them, they already own the animal!

Thank you but in all my passion, I didn’t thank you for such a thought provoking article. It was evident you did your homework and gave it a lot of thought before putting pen to paper, or rather fingers to keyboard! I try to keep an open mind and take in both sides but then I see those magnificent animals that gave their all to their owners and just can’t bear the thought of their lives ending in such a barbaric manner. One look in their eyes and you can see just how wrong it is.

Hi! Another good point – if there are so many unwanted horses, why are we importing them!! No argument here on the irresponsible owners but to subject their horse to the inhumane transport and horrific death is not the answer. No doubt, there will be issues. There were abuse/neglect issues when slaughter WAS an option. There are hundreds of rescues and humane organizations that are ramping up to accept the truly unwanted animals. Last month, KY Equine Humane Center opened its doors and will euthanize the horses if they cannot be adopted. Expect to see more of these that operate more like dog and cat shelters. There are wonderful organizations like Old Friends that actually monitor at-risk thoroughbreds and bring them to Old Friends when they reach the end of their careers. Pure Thoughts is another excellent organization that takes the horses (mostly foals) before they’re in a slaughter situation. Miracle Horse Rescue, Rolling Dog Ranch for disabled animals and on and on….close to 700 at last count.

Did you hear about the mare that delivered a foal recently on the kill house floor at Cavel moments before she was going into the kill box? She should never have gone to slaughter but the regulated industry is not regulated. This week, there was one day that the inspector wasn’t there at all. They were still using double decker haulers that were banned in December.

Your point is well taken and that is a legitimate issue but I don’t think anyone has an answer. The over breeding has caught up with them. I can only hope that they realize the kill houses shutting down isn’t the problem. Many are just callous and when the horse can no longer earn, they discard them like an old shoe. Money isn’t always the issue as the pro slaughter groups would like everyone to believe. I’d like to think that people selling horses will make sure the new owner knows what he’s getting into, just as rescues do when adopting out their horses. Another great source is caring DVMs like you. Of course, by the time you see them, they already own the animal!

Thank you but in all my passion, I didn’t thank you for such a thought provoking article. It was evident you did your homework and gave it a lot of thought before putting pen to paper, or rather fingers to keyboard! I try to keep an open mind and take in both sides but then I see those magnificent animals that gave their all to their owners and just can’t bear the thought of their lives ending in such a barbaric manner. One look in their eyes and you can see just how wrong it is.

Dr. Beatty makes some well reasoned points. I studied the statistical relationship between the rate of change of slaughter year to year and the rate of change in abuse and neglect. What I found was on average a POSITIVE relationship ranging from a factor 1.04 to about 2.73.
This would appear to say that if we decreased slaughter by 1% we would expect to get a DECREASE in abuse and neglect of from 1% to 3% (the opposite of the relationship claimed by slaughter proponents).
However, the standard deviation year to year of the relationship was enormous, indicating that it was not the major factor in determining the rate of abuse and neglect. The major factors appear to be weather (hay and forage) and economy related. Therefore, we could easily see a big increase soon in the rate of abuse cases if these factors are bad, and as Dr. Beatty points out gas and corn prices are sending things in that direction. Whatever happens, killing or not killing 1% of the horse population a year will have little or no effect. The two issues are not significantly related.

Dr. Beatty makes some well reasoned points. I studied the statistical relationship between the rate of change of slaughter year to year and the rate of change in abuse and neglect. What I found was on average a POSITIVE relationship ranging from a factor 1.04 to about 2.73.
This would appear to say that if we decreased slaughter by 1% we would expect to get a DECREASE in abuse and neglect of from 1% to 3% (the opposite of the relationship claimed by slaughter proponents).
However, the standard deviation year to year of the relationship was enormous, indicating that it was not the major factor in determining the rate of abuse and neglect. The major factors appear to be weather (hay and forage) and economy related. Therefore, we could easily see a big increase soon in the rate of abuse cases if these factors are bad, and as Dr. Beatty points out gas and corn prices are sending things in that direction. Whatever happens, killing or not killing 1% of the horse population a year will have little or no effect. The two issues are not significantly related.

Dr.Beatty “What is interesting is that if the irresponsible owner does not have the monetary means to feed a horse what makes you think they have the means to euthanize one humanely?”

The owner of an abused, mistreated and starved horse does not take the horse to slaughter and he does not call the veterinarian to come and euthanize the animal either. Having slaughter as an option has nothing to do with type of abuse. With slaughter there was this type of abuse and without slaughter there will be this type of abuse. The only difference is once the ban is passed rescues can apply their efforts to helping the poor horse in the field that the owner hasn’t fed in months. Right now all of their efforts are in rescuing viable and healthy horses from slaughter feedlots. We have a group that collects money day in and day out so that the rescues can pay the kill buyers and save the horses from a cruel, abusive and barbaric death. We also have a group that spends hours day in and day out working on getting the ban on horse slaughter passed. Once the ban on horse slaughter is passed these groups will continue their efforts on rescuing horses that are abused by there owners and laws to protect horses from these types of owners. Good day!

Dr.Beatty “What is interesting is that if the irresponsible owner does not have the monetary means to feed a horse what makes you think they have the means to euthanize one humanely?”

The owner of an abused, mistreated and starved horse does not take the horse to slaughter and he does not call the veterinarian to come and euthanize the animal either. Having slaughter as an option has nothing to do with type of abuse. With slaughter there was this type of abuse and without slaughter there will be this type of abuse. The only difference is once the ban is passed rescues can apply their efforts to helping the poor horse in the field that the owner hasn’t fed in months. Right now all of their efforts are in rescuing viable and healthy horses from slaughter feedlots. We have a group that collects money day in and day out so that the rescues can pay the kill buyers and save the horses from a cruel, abusive and barbaric death. We also have a group that spends hours day in and day out working on getting the ban on horse slaughter passed. Once the ban on horse slaughter is passed these groups will continue their efforts on rescuing horses that are abused by there owners and laws to protect horses from these types of owners. Good day!

Vicki writes:

Good points but you left out a few very relevant issues. There are not 90,000 unwanted horses. First you did not address the large percentage – at minimum, 30,000 – of stolen horses that are slaughtered.

I write: Let’s say 80% of 30,000 are replaced, that’s 24,000. Is that pro-slaughter propaganda? How’s that fit into your equation?

BTW, those hundreds and hundreds of rescues and humane organizations are booked full, and pennyless.

I am anti-slaughter in search of some idea of where they’ll go and where the funding will come from.

Rob

Vicki writes:

Good points but you left out a few very relevant issues. There are not 90,000 unwanted horses. First you did not address the large percentage – at minimum, 30,000 – of stolen horses that are slaughtered.

I write: Let’s say 80% of 30,000 are replaced, that’s 24,000. Is that pro-slaughter propaganda? How’s that fit into your equation?

BTW, those hundreds and hundreds of rescues and humane organizations are booked full, and pennyless.

I am anti-slaughter in search of some idea of where they’ll go and where the funding will come from.

Rob

There are many aspects to look at on this topic. “unwanted horses” should be changed to potentially neglected horses.

Kill buyers out bidding the average Joe is a false statement. The kill buyers have to make a profit. Current horse prices average less then they ever have. I have seen well broke ponies at a registered pony sale go for under $100 in the past month. The cost to register and train these animals exceedes what they bring at auction.

In 2001 74% of horses slaughtered were riding horses ( source “Characterizations of horses at auctions in slaughter plants” 2001 Animal Sciences Reasearch Repor. The Department of Animal Sciences, Colorado State University)

By looking at these numbers the overbreeding of riding horses feeds into the pool of horses for slaughter for example AQHA I remember reading in Western Horseman that there were 10,000 new foals registered in one year. And the AQHA after a court battle has to register multiple embryo transfer foals. Since when can a mare naturally produce more then 1 foal a year (with the exception of the rare twins?) Did all of those foals get in good homes?

Another area is irresponsible breeding, that lends to the need for slaughter. Just because you have a mare, or a stallion does not mean you should breed. Spaying a mare is costly. Gelding a stallion is cheaper, but still costly. As a breeder any colt I sell I offer a GELDING REBATE, in which a buyer provides me with a copy of the bill for gelding and a statement from a vet including description of the animal, I will send the buyer an amount of money to defray the cost of gelding. Usually 10-20% of the sale price. I strongly feel that a good stallion makes a fantastic gelding.

Genetic defaults.
If your mare or stallion is a known carrier of a genetic default. DO NOT BREED IT. I have argued with several breeders over HYPP +/- horses. I do not care how much money you have won with the animal, I don’t care if it bought your house. If it carries a bad gene and is male geld it, a mare do not breed it. How are you improving a breed by passing on known genetic trash?

I am not picking on the AQHA it is just one of the largest breed registries in the US. I on the other hand am a breeder of endangered and rare breeds based on number of new foals registered each year. Morgan, Welsh Cob, Classic and Foundation Classic Shetlands.

There is a need for grade horses and ponies, there is a need for safe and sane equines of every size, but careful evaluation of your intentions when breeding is necessary.

Believe me if my stallions were to pass on traits or genetics that were not a good contribution to their breed I would geld every one of them.

So that brings me back to gelding, perhaps the AAEP could come up with a group of vets that would be willing to make the cost of gelding manageable, if only for 1 month a year? Sort of like the small animal vets do for spay and nuter month. That would sure help!

There are many aspects to look at on this topic. “unwanted horses” should be changed to potentially neglected horses.

Kill buyers out bidding the average Joe is a false statement. The kill buyers have to make a profit. Current horse prices average less then they ever have. I have seen well broke ponies at a registered pony sale go for under $100 in the past month. The cost to register and train these animals exceedes what they bring at auction.

In 2001 74% of horses slaughtered were riding horses ( source “Characterizations of horses at auctions in slaughter plants” 2001 Animal Sciences Reasearch Repor. The Department of Animal Sciences, Colorado State University)

By looking at these numbers the overbreeding of riding horses feeds into the pool of horses for slaughter for example AQHA I remember reading in Western Horseman that there were 10,000 new foals registered in one year. And the AQHA after a court battle has to register multiple embryo transfer foals. Since when can a mare naturally produce more then 1 foal a year (with the exception of the rare twins?) Did all of those foals get in good homes?

Another area is irresponsible breeding, that lends to the need for slaughter. Just because you have a mare, or a stallion does not mean you should breed. Spaying a mare is costly. Gelding a stallion is cheaper, but still costly. As a breeder any colt I sell I offer a GELDING REBATE, in which a buyer provides me with a copy of the bill for gelding and a statement from a vet including description of the animal, I will send the buyer an amount of money to defray the cost of gelding. Usually 10-20% of the sale price. I strongly feel that a good stallion makes a fantastic gelding.

Genetic defaults.
If your mare or stallion is a known carrier of a genetic default. DO NOT BREED IT. I have argued with several breeders over HYPP +/- horses. I do not care how much money you have won with the animal, I don’t care if it bought your house. If it carries a bad gene and is male geld it, a mare do not breed it. How are you improving a breed by passing on known genetic trash?

I am not picking on the AQHA it is just one of the largest breed registries in the US. I on the other hand am a breeder of endangered and rare breeds based on number of new foals registered each year. Morgan, Welsh Cob, Classic and Foundation Classic Shetlands.

There is a need for grade horses and ponies, there is a need for safe and sane equines of every size, but careful evaluation of your intentions when breeding is necessary.

Believe me if my stallions were to pass on traits or genetics that were not a good contribution to their breed I would geld every one of them.

So that brings me back to gelding, perhaps the AAEP could come up with a group of vets that would be willing to make the cost of gelding manageable, if only for 1 month a year? Sort of like the small animal vets do for spay and nuter month. That would sure help!

Rob Says “BTW, those hundreds and hundreds of rescues and humane organizations are booked full, and pennyless.”

Who are you to speak for 100′s and 100′s of rescues? What is your direct connection to these rescues? The site you visit is the site I visit and from what I can tell the rescues are collecting 1,000′s of dollars each day to rescue more horses from slaughter. You have no right to make this statement of which you know nothing about the 100′s and 100′s of resues across this nation.

Rob Says “BTW, those hundreds and hundreds of rescues and humane organizations are booked full, and pennyless.”

Who are you to speak for 100′s and 100′s of rescues? What is your direct connection to these rescues? The site you visit is the site I visit and from what I can tell the rescues are collecting 1,000′s of dollars each day to rescue more horses from slaughter. You have no right to make this statement of which you know nothing about the 100′s and 100′s of resues across this nation.

As far as the end of slaughter causing an increase in horse neglect and abuse: In California, a state with an ANTI-horse slaughter bill in place, found that complaints of horse abuse and neglect did NOT increase. Also, complaints involving horse theft actually decreased by around 30%.

IMO, no responsible person sends their horse to slaughter, just as no responsible person neglects or knowlingly abuses his/her horse.

You always have the bottom feeders–those who DO abuse and neglect horses, and those who send their horses to a horrible death at a slaughter house.

As far as the end of slaughter causing an increase in horse neglect and abuse: In California, a state with an ANTI-horse slaughter bill in place, found that complaints of horse abuse and neglect did NOT increase. Also, complaints involving horse theft actually decreased by around 30%.

IMO, no responsible person sends their horse to slaughter, just as no responsible person neglects or knowlingly abuses his/her horse.

You always have the bottom feeders–those who DO abuse and neglect horses, and those who send their horses to a horrible death at a slaughter house.

@ L. Matte and Rob,

The perception of animal shelters is that they are run on a shoestring budget and that they do not have money, at least that is what the public is told. Resources are limited is the catch phrase of the MAJORITY of rescues. And I know of a couple locally that that is the case; however one of the largest organizations the National Humane Society has to report its financial statements and surprisingly (or not) they are in the black and not by a little bit! Here is a copy of their 2005 financial statement http://www.hsus.org/web-files/PDF/HSUS_AR_05.pdf
it is on page 24 of this brochure. Here you will find that in 2005 they had an increase in assests by $18.5 million dollars! That means even with Katrina or maybe because of Katrina the Humane Society profitted $18.5 million! Of their expenses they gave to local organizations $27.8 million and they could have given more, so they do have money. It maybe that it is not trickled down to our local organizations as well as it should.

So I believe you are both correct. At the local levels the perception and many times the reality is there is not enough money, however at the national level there is more than enough.

@ L. Matte and Rob,

The perception of animal shelters is that they are run on a shoestring budget and that they do not have money, at least that is what the public is told. Resources are limited is the catch phrase of the MAJORITY of rescues. And I know of a couple locally that that is the case; however one of the largest organizations the National Humane Society has to report its financial statements and surprisingly (or not) they are in the black and not by a little bit! Here is a copy of their 2005 financial statement http://www.hsus.org/web-files/PDF/HSUS_AR_05.pdf
it is on page 24 of this brochure. Here you will find that in 2005 they had an increase in assests by $18.5 million dollars! That means even with Katrina or maybe because of Katrina the Humane Society profitted $18.5 million! Of their expenses they gave to local organizations $27.8 million and they could have given more, so they do have money. It maybe that it is not trickled down to our local organizations as well as it should.

So I believe you are both correct. At the local levels the perception and many times the reality is there is not enough money, however at the national level there is more than enough.

Dr. Beatty thank you for pointing that out. I support the American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act 100% and I have trust in the leaders of passing such an act to know what is really going on with the unwanted horse theory. When Cavel was shut down the last time 100′s of resues volunteered to take in the horses that were in the pipeline. However they were turned away for the most part. I believe Cavel will be shut down again here in the next couple of days and know that SAPL, HSUS and these small rescues we speak off are working together this very minute to organize a rescue for any horses stuck in the pipeline. To say 100′s and 100′s of rescues are pennyless is a little far fetched since I work with a group (Fans of Barbaro) that works with about 10 +/- rescues and have raised close to $300,000. since January to rescue mostly slaughter bound horses. Yes they may not be driving a Rolls Royce but they are very much active everyday in rescuing horses. There are more and more rescues popping up all over the beautiful USA as horse slaughter has been let out of the bag. There are many more of us that want to protect these animal than want to butcher them. We still have a lot of work to do no doubt but like I said before once the bills are passed we can focus more on the horse rather than the constant battle of getting the bills passed. Once again thanks for your input:)

Dr. Beatty thank you for pointing that out. I support the American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act 100% and I have trust in the leaders of passing such an act to know what is really going on with the unwanted horse theory. When Cavel was shut down the last time 100′s of resues volunteered to take in the horses that were in the pipeline. However they were turned away for the most part. I believe Cavel will be shut down again here in the next couple of days and know that SAPL, HSUS and these small rescues we speak off are working together this very minute to organize a rescue for any horses stuck in the pipeline. To say 100′s and 100′s of rescues are pennyless is a little far fetched since I work with a group (Fans of Barbaro) that works with about 10 +/- rescues and have raised close to $300,000. since January to rescue mostly slaughter bound horses. Yes they may not be driving a Rolls Royce but they are very much active everyday in rescuing horses. There are more and more rescues popping up all over the beautiful USA as horse slaughter has been let out of the bag. There are many more of us that want to protect these animal than want to butcher them. We still have a lot of work to do no doubt but like I said before once the bills are passed we can focus more on the horse rather than the constant battle of getting the bills passed. Once again thanks for your input:)

LaserRob, we can always count on you! You are so far off base on the rescues. The organizations I support and many others are doing just fine. Old Friends just spend $58k to bring Wallenda home. Pure Thoughts rescues foals on a daily basis. Miracle Horse Rescue is doing fine – to name a few. As one poster mentioned, all the efforts have been directed at saving horses from slaughter. Once the ban is passed, they can refocus on the abused and neglected – not to say they haven’t had their share of those rescues.

You keep claiming to be anti-slaughter but your posts suggest otherwise. If you were against slaughter, you would be doing all you could to shut down the kill houses. You can’t be against slaughter and not want the kill houses shut down. I do believe, we are there. I haven’t had an update yet, but the bill is on Blogo’s desk for signature in Illinois. Last I heard, Texas did not get the bill with the amendment that was sneakily added on the calendar for a vote. In addition, the US Supreme Court today refused to hear a challenge by the two plants in Texas asking the plants be reopened.

Expect to see more organizations opening or changing gears like the Kentucky Humane Equine Center that operates more like a shelter than rescue. Once the federal legislation is passed, those of us that have been using resources and money contacting legislators and rescuing slaughter bound horses, can focus our attention on supporting the rescues and shelters. The amount of money we’ve been spending can go to the rescues/shelters for education and abuse/neglect cases.

Join us or at least quit trying to take the wheels off our bus.

LaserRob, we can always count on you! You are so far off base on the rescues. The organizations I support and many others are doing just fine. Old Friends just spend $58k to bring Wallenda home. Pure Thoughts rescues foals on a daily basis. Miracle Horse Rescue is doing fine – to name a few. As one poster mentioned, all the efforts have been directed at saving horses from slaughter. Once the ban is passed, they can refocus on the abused and neglected – not to say they haven’t had their share of those rescues.

You keep claiming to be anti-slaughter but your posts suggest otherwise. If you were against slaughter, you would be doing all you could to shut down the kill houses. You can’t be against slaughter and not want the kill houses shut down. I do believe, we are there. I haven’t had an update yet, but the bill is on Blogo’s desk for signature in Illinois. Last I heard, Texas did not get the bill with the amendment that was sneakily added on the calendar for a vote. In addition, the US Supreme Court today refused to hear a challenge by the two plants in Texas asking the plants be reopened.

Expect to see more organizations opening or changing gears like the Kentucky Humane Equine Center that operates more like a shelter than rescue. Once the federal legislation is passed, those of us that have been using resources and money contacting legislators and rescuing slaughter bound horses, can focus our attention on supporting the rescues and shelters. The amount of money we’ve been spending can go to the rescues/shelters for education and abuse/neglect cases.

Join us or at least quit trying to take the wheels off our bus.

Good article Dr.Beatty.

Who came up with the number that over 30,000 of the horses slaughtered are stolen? I’d like to see some facts on that. I also get very tired of using California as an example. When they put the no slaughter law into effect there wasn’t even a slaughter plant IN California.

The big picture is that the estimated 90,000 of horses that are not slaughtered a percentage will go on to reproduce. The average life span of a horse is 25 years. 90,000 is only the FIRST year. Do the math…….

Good article Dr.Beatty.

Who came up with the number that over 30,000 of the horses slaughtered are stolen? I’d like to see some facts on that. I also get very tired of using California as an example. When they put the no slaughter law into effect there wasn’t even a slaughter plant IN California.

The big picture is that the estimated 90,000 of horses that are not slaughtered a percentage will go on to reproduce. The average life span of a horse is 25 years. 90,000 is only the FIRST year. Do the math…….

BUC Just so happens I have a lot of information available concerning the unwanted horse. I had to remove the www from the websites because I don’t think the good Doc allows websites to be listed.

“WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GO??”

First let me offer the link to John Hettinger’s; Where Would All the Horses Go? http://www.saplonline.org/Legislation/ahspa/where_would_all_the_horses_go.htm

John Holland’s, A Study of the Relationship between Horse Slaughter and Reported Cases of Abuse and Neglect http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/horsemeat/TheRelationshipofAbusetoSlaughter.pdf

Sapl – Facts and FAQ’s About Horse Slaughter http://www.saplonline.org/pdf/SAPLFAQ.pdf

Habitat For Horses; http://www.habitatforhorses.org/joincampaigns/docs/factsandfallacies2005.ppt#295,7,

Also when you take into consideration the number of horses that are imported from Canada, the number of horses stolen, the number of horses sold under false pretense, the number of horses that were by products of Premarin, the number of horses bred for the sole purpose of slaughter, and the number of horses that will be humanely euthanized, the number of horses left are far less than what the pro horse slaughter advocates want you to believe. Horse slaughter is not a service to help owners dispose of a horse. It is a business and as long as other countries will buy the product the slaughter houses will supply the product. Go to http://www.manesandtailsorganization.org/stats.htm and take a look at the statistics. At one time in 1990 345,700 horses were butchered in 1994 107,029 and in 2000 47,134. Where did all of those horses go? Once again the supply and demand fact is what comes into play. The fact of the matter is slaughter of horses is abusive, barbaric and a cruel way to end a life regardless of any unwanted horse claims. Horse owner’s that abuse and starve their horses will abuse and starve their horses with or without slaughter. As long as slaughter is an option the abuse will continue.

BUC Just so happens I have a lot of information available concerning the unwanted horse. I had to remove the www from the websites because I don’t think the good Doc allows websites to be listed.

“WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GO??”

First let me offer the link to John Hettinger’s; Where Would All the Horses Go? http://www.saplonline.org/Legislation/ahspa/where_would_all_the_horses_go.htm

John Holland’s, A Study of the Relationship between Horse Slaughter and Reported Cases of Abuse and Neglect http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/horsemeat/TheRelationshipofAbusetoSlaughter.pdf

Sapl – Facts and FAQ’s About Horse Slaughter http://www.saplonline.org/pdf/SAPLFAQ.pdf

Habitat For Horses; http://www.habitatforhorses.org/joincampaigns/docs/factsandfallacies2005.ppt#295,7,

Also when you take into consideration the number of horses that are imported from Canada, the number of horses stolen, the number of horses sold under false pretense, the number of horses that were by products of Premarin, the number of horses bred for the sole purpose of slaughter, and the number of horses that will be humanely euthanized, the number of horses left are far less than what the pro horse slaughter advocates want you to believe. Horse slaughter is not a service to help owners dispose of a horse. It is a business and as long as other countries will buy the product the slaughter houses will supply the product. Go to http://www.manesandtailsorganization.org/stats.htm and take a look at the statistics. At one time in 1990 345,700 horses were butchered in 1994 107,029 and in 2000 47,134. Where did all of those horses go? Once again the supply and demand fact is what comes into play. The fact of the matter is slaughter of horses is abusive, barbaric and a cruel way to end a life regardless of any unwanted horse claims. Horse owner’s that abuse and starve their horses will abuse and starve their horses with or without slaughter. As long as slaughter is an option the abuse will continue.

I allow them L. Matte. Unfortunately due to spam I have to moderate them so it does not get posted until I say it is OK to be posted. And your links are very informative and not sending us to some porn site…LOL…so they are readily accepted.

I editted your comment to correct the links.

I allow them L. Matte. Unfortunately due to spam I have to moderate them so it does not get posted until I say it is OK to be posted. And your links are very informative and not sending us to some porn site…LOL…so they are readily accepted.

I editted your comment to correct the links.

OK L.Matte, I am going to play a little devils advocate here but hear me out on this. You said: The fact of the matter is slaughter of horses is abusive, barbaric and a cruel way to end a life regardless of any unwanted horse claims.

Can this be a claim for the entire slaughtering industry? Cows, pigs, lambs, veal included???

Is this just because the majority of Americans and especially horse owners do not eat horse and therefore their life is more valuable than say a cow? Other countries have religions that value cows. There are people here in the US that have cows as pets. So why is slaughter barbaric for the horse and not the cow?

The ban on the slaughter of horses for the reasoning because we think it is cruel and barbaric can be applied to the entire industry. I do not know if you are a vegetarian but I surely want to keep eating cheeseburgers!

So what I am asking and do not get me wrong…I feel horses are companion animals and I see no purpose here in the states to slaughter horses because it is entirely an exported commodity…IS there another reason for the anti-slaughter bill?

OK L.Matte, I am going to play a little devils advocate here but hear me out on this. You said: The fact of the matter is slaughter of horses is abusive, barbaric and a cruel way to end a life regardless of any unwanted horse claims.

Can this be a claim for the entire slaughtering industry? Cows, pigs, lambs, veal included???

Is this just because the majority of Americans and especially horse owners do not eat horse and therefore their life is more valuable than say a cow? Other countries have religions that value cows. There are people here in the US that have cows as pets. So why is slaughter barbaric for the horse and not the cow?

The ban on the slaughter of horses for the reasoning because we think it is cruel and barbaric can be applied to the entire industry. I do not know if you are a vegetarian but I surely want to keep eating cheeseburgers!

So what I am asking and do not get me wrong…I feel horses are companion animals and I see no purpose here in the states to slaughter horses because it is entirely an exported commodity…IS there another reason for the anti-slaughter bill?

Ok Dr. Beatty I have answered your questions as indicated by an * Here we go:)

OK L.Matte, I am going to play a little devils advocate here but hear me out on this. You said: The fact of the matter is slaughter of horses is abusive, barbaric and a cruel way to end a life regardless of any unwanted horse claims.

Can this be a claim for the entire slaughtering industry? Cows, pigs, lambs, veal included???

* I have no idea because I have not researched the food animal industry. I have no doubt there are some major problems going on there. I am not involved and have done no research in that area of slaughter at all. However, I have done research on the captive bolt, the fact that it was designed for cattle and the difference in skull structure of bovines and equines. Also that a captive bolt if used should be administered by a veterinarian or trained individual. Without getting into that argument there is plenty of documentation that proves that is not the case in the foreign owned horse slaughtering houses here in the U.S. Either way I would never support the slaughter of horses for human consumption. It is not necessary in our culture and is simply un-American in this day and age.

Is this just because the majority of Americans and especially horse owners do not eat horse and therefore their life is more valuable than say a cow? Other countries have religions that value cows. There are people here in the US that have cows as pets. So why is slaughter barbaric for the horse and not the cow?

Dr. Beatty I would have to say see my answer above! Americans do eat cows and we are not over in India slaughtering their cow’s and shipping the meat to the USA! As to whether a cow or a horse is more valuable when it comes to food I would have to say a cow wins. Most Americans eat meat and my intention is not to stop them. On the other hand I feel it is appalling that Americans who don’t eat horse meat should be a part of supplying the meat to any other country. We could get into the USDA and tax dollars if that is what you are looking for?

The ban on the slaughter of horses for the reasoning because we think it is cruel and barbaric can be applied to the entire industry. I do not know if you are a vegetarian but I surely want to keep eating cheeseburgers!

I think I answered this question above. I had a cheeseburger for lunch because I was raised eating beef. I am not ready to give up my cheeseburger either which is a shame since data proves it to be on the side of unhealthy.

So what I am asking and do not get me wrong…I feel horses are companion animals and I see no purpose here in the states to slaughter horses because it is entirely an exported commodity…IS there another reason for the anti-slaughter bill?

Dr. Beatty I believe you know the answers to that question. All of the above and I can provide links that spell out all of the reasons. There are many. Some how I believe you already know what my answers would be?

Now I have a question if you don’t mind. What is your position on the AHSPA? Also what is your desire of achievement from starting this thread?

Ok Dr. Beatty I have answered your questions as indicated by an * Here we go:)

OK L.Matte, I am going to play a little devils advocate here but hear me out on this. You said: The fact of the matter is slaughter of horses is abusive, barbaric and a cruel way to end a life regardless of any unwanted horse claims.

Can this be a claim for the entire slaughtering industry? Cows, pigs, lambs, veal included???

* I have no idea because I have not researched the food animal industry. I have no doubt there are some major problems going on there. I am not involved and have done no research in that area of slaughter at all. However, I have done research on the captive bolt, the fact that it was designed for cattle and the difference in skull structure of bovines and equines. Also that a captive bolt if used should be administered by a veterinarian or trained individual. Without getting into that argument there is plenty of documentation that proves that is not the case in the foreign owned horse slaughtering houses here in the U.S. Either way I would never support the slaughter of horses for human consumption. It is not necessary in our culture and is simply un-American in this day and age.

Is this just because the majority of Americans and especially horse owners do not eat horse and therefore their life is more valuable than say a cow? Other countries have religions that value cows. There are people here in the US that have cows as pets. So why is slaughter barbaric for the horse and not the cow?

Dr. Beatty I would have to say see my answer above! Americans do eat cows and we are not over in India slaughtering their cow’s and shipping the meat to the USA! As to whether a cow or a horse is more valuable when it comes to food I would have to say a cow wins. Most Americans eat meat and my intention is not to stop them. On the other hand I feel it is appalling that Americans who don’t eat horse meat should be a part of supplying the meat to any other country. We could get into the USDA and tax dollars if that is what you are looking for?

The ban on the slaughter of horses for the reasoning because we think it is cruel and barbaric can be applied to the entire industry. I do not know if you are a vegetarian but I surely want to keep eating cheeseburgers!

I think I answered this question above. I had a cheeseburger for lunch because I was raised eating beef. I am not ready to give up my cheeseburger either which is a shame since data proves it to be on the side of unhealthy.

So what I am asking and do not get me wrong…I feel horses are companion animals and I see no purpose here in the states to slaughter horses because it is entirely an exported commodity…IS there another reason for the anti-slaughter bill?

Dr. Beatty I believe you know the answers to that question. All of the above and I can provide links that spell out all of the reasons. There are many. Some how I believe you already know what my answers would be?

Now I have a question if you don’t mind. What is your position on the AHSPA? Also what is your desire of achievement from starting this thread?

No one has answered where will they go??

No one has answered where will they go??

Horse slaughter numbers skyrocketed after passage of The Tax Reform Act of 1986 closed the tax-sheltering “passive investment” loophole horse breeders had used to entice wealthy investors interested in a tax shelter bursting the bubble of artificially inflated prices and flooding the market with Arabians, Thoroughbreds, Standardbreds and Quarter Horses. The opening of the floodgates resulted in a bloodbath for the horses as slaughter numbers went from 128,000 in 1985 to 345,500 with another 70,000 horses shipped to Canada in 1990.

Some had questioned why the lands were not flooded with roaming horses if so many were available for slaughter. A vested interest, due to tax breaks, had them within the farm boundary – basically out of sight. When the tax breaks went wayside, the horses went to the slaughterhouses. Also attributing to the floodgate is the plight of the farmer late 80′s and early 90′s.

This comes down to the question asked today, “why can’t we simply absorb the 100,000 slaughtered when so many were housed in the 80′s”. The answer is they were never housed as companion animals – just loophole material.

Horse slaughter numbers skyrocketed after passage of The Tax Reform Act of 1986 closed the tax-sheltering “passive investment” loophole horse breeders had used to entice wealthy investors interested in a tax shelter bursting the bubble of artificially inflated prices and flooding the market with Arabians, Thoroughbreds, Standardbreds and Quarter Horses. The opening of the floodgates resulted in a bloodbath for the horses as slaughter numbers went from 128,000 in 1985 to 345,500 with another 70,000 horses shipped to Canada in 1990.

Some had questioned why the lands were not flooded with roaming horses if so many were available for slaughter. A vested interest, due to tax breaks, had them within the farm boundary – basically out of sight. When the tax breaks went wayside, the horses went to the slaughterhouses. Also attributing to the floodgate is the plight of the farmer late 80′s and early 90′s.

This comes down to the question asked today, “why can’t we simply absorb the 100,000 slaughtered when so many were housed in the 80′s”. The answer is they were never housed as companion animals – just loophole material.

My position on AHSPA is that the main concept is admirable, ethical, and I agree with it. However it is legislation based on a knee jerk reaction to a highly emotional subject and I do not like that type of legislation it can cause problems down the road such as the devils advocate question I asked you about the rest of the industry. This type of legislation does open the door to examine the entire slaughtering industry, which may be good but it may be bad if it jeopradizes my choice to eat meat.

Should AHSPA be passed? yes and it will. My main purpose for starting this post was to point out that when it is passed there will be unwanted horses and right now there are other contributing factors that will increase the unwanted population. There are horses right now being held for slaughter. I am unsure on the amount there are probably no hard numbers but in the thousands is a good guess. The question is what are we going to do with those 1000′s of horses? I believe laserRob just asked the same question and believes it has not been completely and fully answered. I feel it has been answered somewhat by you and others – at least there is some thought that the humane societies and other rescues are prepared (I hope they are) which is why I have continued on with my next post – http://www.horsekinetics.com/other-humane-issues-for-horses-besides-anti-slaughter Thank you and the others for participating in this one. I have learned quite a bit.

On another topic about AHSPA – supposedly there is some bad wording in the bill involving the transport of horses which could be interpretted to impact the entire horse industry. I have not seen this yet and nor do I have the time to read the entire bill so I am waiting for the person that told me about this to point it out in the bill.

My position on AHSPA is that the main concept is admirable, ethical, and I agree with it. However it is legislation based on a knee jerk reaction to a highly emotional subject and I do not like that type of legislation it can cause problems down the road such as the devils advocate question I asked you about the rest of the industry. This type of legislation does open the door to examine the entire slaughtering industry, which may be good but it may be bad if it jeopradizes my choice to eat meat.

Should AHSPA be passed? yes and it will. My main purpose for starting this post was to point out that when it is passed there will be unwanted horses and right now there are other contributing factors that will increase the unwanted population. There are horses right now being held for slaughter. I am unsure on the amount there are probably no hard numbers but in the thousands is a good guess. The question is what are we going to do with those 1000′s of horses? I believe laserRob just asked the same question and believes it has not been completely and fully answered. I feel it has been answered somewhat by you and others – at least there is some thought that the humane societies and other rescues are prepared (I hope they are) which is why I have continued on with my next post – http://www.horsekinetics.com/other-humane-issues-for-horses-besides-anti-slaughter Thank you and the others for participating in this one. I have learned quite a bit.

On another topic about AHSPA – supposedly there is some bad wording in the bill involving the transport of horses which could be interpretted to impact the entire horse industry. I have not seen this yet and nor do I have the time to read the entire bill so I am waiting for the person that told me about this to point it out in the bill.

OH one other thing L.Matte -

I did not know what your answer would be to my question regarding is there any other reason for the anti-slaughter bill? I can think of no other reason besides an emotional one which again leads to bad legislation. If there was some other point to the bill I would like to know about it. My emotional side definitely says it is a good bill even though there will be problems with it.

OH one other thing L.Matte -

I did not know what your answer would be to my question regarding is there any other reason for the anti-slaughter bill? I can think of no other reason besides an emotional one which again leads to bad legislation. If there was some other point to the bill I would like to know about it. My emotional side definitely says it is a good bill even though there will be problems with it.

I was at a horse sale recently and horses were not selling. You could not give them away. One seller pleaded to get buyers because he had no grass and couldn’t afford to buy hay because it is expensive. One could respond to this seller and say quit raising them. I’m sure this is what the seller will likely do, but in his defense the seller didn’t anticipate the bottom falling out of the horse market. The scale has been tipped too quickly. Because there is no base price for horses any more, I’m afraid many will be forced to take drastic action which may result in horses being turned loose. The blind, lame and unwanted horses have to end up somewhere. I don’t think the rescue farms have the ability to absorb them all. The high price of fuel affects everything and probably doesn’t help in terms of horse expense (feed, hay, etc.). I’m a horse lover and have my own, but don’t intend to raise any until the scale tips the other direction. I’m sad to say, the problems with unwanted horses is going to get much worse before it gets better.

I was at a horse sale recently and horses were not selling. You could not give them away. One seller pleaded to get buyers because he had no grass and couldn’t afford to buy hay because it is expensive. One could respond to this seller and say quit raising them. I’m sure this is what the seller will likely do, but in his defense the seller didn’t anticipate the bottom falling out of the horse market. The scale has been tipped too quickly. Because there is no base price for horses any more, I’m afraid many will be forced to take drastic action which may result in horses being turned loose. The blind, lame and unwanted horses have to end up somewhere. I don’t think the rescue farms have the ability to absorb them all. The high price of fuel affects everything and probably doesn’t help in terms of horse expense (feed, hay, etc.). I’m a horse lover and have my own, but don’t intend to raise any until the scale tips the other direction. I’m sad to say, the problems with unwanted horses is going to get much worse before it gets better.

No one seems to have addressed three areas that seem obvious to me. One, any market will be filled. If there’s a market for horses because many are being slaughtered, then horses will be there to fill the void. When the market disappears, like any supply and demand situation, the horse numbers will fall to match the market. The time of concern is the time between stopping slaughter and the slowing of production, which could also be encouraged if registries like the AQHA did not condone slaughter and instead worked toward more responsible breeding. Next, there are rescues and sanctuaries, and they do have funds, but now those funds are primarily used to buy horses, particularly young ones, off feedlots before they go to slaughter. If there were no feedlots, those resources could be redircted toward helping the horses in need. Finally, laws that allowed those who neglect, abuse, r starve their horses to be prosecuted and allowed the horses to be removed promptly from such situations would go a long way to ending abuse.

No one seems to have addressed three areas that seem obvious to me. One, any market will be filled. If there’s a market for horses because many are being slaughtered, then horses will be there to fill the void. When the market disappears, like any supply and demand situation, the horse numbers will fall to match the market. The time of concern is the time between stopping slaughter and the slowing of production, which could also be encouraged if registries like the AQHA did not condone slaughter and instead worked toward more responsible breeding. Next, there are rescues and sanctuaries, and they do have funds, but now those funds are primarily used to buy horses, particularly young ones, off feedlots before they go to slaughter. If there were no feedlots, those resources could be redircted toward helping the horses in need. Finally, laws that allowed those who neglect, abuse, r starve their horses to be prosecuted and allowed the horses to be removed promptly from such situations would go a long way to ending abuse.

I too have seen owners pleading for someone to buy their equine. We bought a registered Arab mare at auction ($125)and the owner wanted us to buy her pony friend. I am not equiped financially to deal with a foundered pony mare so we passed.

I did some reasearch on my primary breed and was appaled to find that the ASPC also allows multiple embryo transfers. But so far none have been registered due to the fact that embryo transfer is costly and a lot of us (shetland breeders) do not have the means to do so. With this said I am going to propose a rule change regaurding this at convention this year. I think multiple embryo transfers is against nature and will flood the gene pool with a particular set of DNA.

Anyhow I digressed with my original reason to post. Cavele has a federal stay as it is challenging the constitunality of the Illinois law. It has reopened until the middle of the month.

I must say that horse slaughter is not any crueler then the slaughter of the food animals we as a nation feel are acceptable. (cows, chickens, pigs) Based on the nutritional information available on the USDA website, I do not see why we do not eat horse meat.
Compared to beef horse meat has more protien, less chloresterol, more iron and less fat.

No I am not going out to slaughter my ponies for dinner, but it is just a thought. Perhaps help alleviate world hunger, by supplying a nutritionally rich food stuff from our(the US)excess of available product? hmm now that is an idea.

I too have seen owners pleading for someone to buy their equine. We bought a registered Arab mare at auction ($125)and the owner wanted us to buy her pony friend. I am not equiped financially to deal with a foundered pony mare so we passed.

I did some reasearch on my primary breed and was appaled to find that the ASPC also allows multiple embryo transfers. But so far none have been registered due to the fact that embryo transfer is costly and a lot of us (shetland breeders) do not have the means to do so. With this said I am going to propose a rule change regaurding this at convention this year. I think multiple embryo transfers is against nature and will flood the gene pool with a particular set of DNA.

Anyhow I digressed with my original reason to post. Cavele has a federal stay as it is challenging the constitunality of the Illinois law. It has reopened until the middle of the month.

I must say that horse slaughter is not any crueler then the slaughter of the food animals we as a nation feel are acceptable. (cows, chickens, pigs) Based on the nutritional information available on the USDA website, I do not see why we do not eat horse meat.
Compared to beef horse meat has more protien, less chloresterol, more iron and less fat.

No I am not going out to slaughter my ponies for dinner, but it is just a thought. Perhaps help alleviate world hunger, by supplying a nutritionally rich food stuff from our(the US)excess of available product? hmm now that is an idea.

New news. Cavelle is reopened during the appeal process. With the current drought and wet weather across the states this may help some from starving to death.

Hay prices at auction for grass in our area has gone up to over $5 a bale for marginal hay. Can we say hay shortage?

New news. Cavelle is reopened during the appeal process. With the current drought and wet weather across the states this may help some from starving to death.

Hay prices at auction for grass in our area has gone up to over $5 a bale for marginal hay. Can we say hay shortage?

The anti slaughter movement, for me is more than just a knee jerk reaction. It started out like that, but through my research I have found other reasons. One is that it incourages irresponsable dreeding. Slaughter is seen as a dumping ground. It incourages theft, if one can get a few hundred bucks for a horse they didn’t pay anything for it’s naive to think no one would consider this.
It also engourages a mentality that horses, or any animal is expenable.
To answer the question about other animals being processed the same, yes. This is true to a point. It is acknowledged that horses require different care in transport at least. This is widely unenforced though. Horses are flighty, panicy animals. Cows are a bit more docile.
As far as the affect this might have on the meat industry all together. The anti horse slaughter no doudt will affect this. My personal opinion is that you can eat all the meat you want, but you have to respect the animal. What we have in the meat processing etc. does not show respect, so I am for reform on this, somewhat.
Shutting down horse slaughter in the states is not the cure all for the problems seen in the industry, but it’s a step in the right direction. After slaughter is no longer an option, the AQHA and others may start encouraging responsable breeding, and others people will think twice about getting, or randomely breeding a horse just because. At the very least we will have to acknowledge the bigger picture, and other problems with our horses.
Those are my thoughts on this.

The anti slaughter movement, for me is more than just a knee jerk reaction. It started out like that, but through my research I have found other reasons. One is that it incourages irresponsable dreeding. Slaughter is seen as a dumping ground. It incourages theft, if one can get a few hundred bucks for a horse they didn’t pay anything for it’s naive to think no one would consider this.
It also engourages a mentality that horses, or any animal is expenable.
To answer the question about other animals being processed the same, yes. This is true to a point. It is acknowledged that horses require different care in transport at least. This is widely unenforced though. Horses are flighty, panicy animals. Cows are a bit more docile.
As far as the affect this might have on the meat industry all together. The anti horse slaughter no doudt will affect this. My personal opinion is that you can eat all the meat you want, but you have to respect the animal. What we have in the meat processing etc. does not show respect, so I am for reform on this, somewhat.
Shutting down horse slaughter in the states is not the cure all for the problems seen in the industry, but it’s a step in the right direction. After slaughter is no longer an option, the AQHA and others may start encouraging responsable breeding, and others people will think twice about getting, or randomely breeding a horse just because. At the very least we will have to acknowledge the bigger picture, and other problems with our horses.
Those are my thoughts on this.

@Jasper -

You have some good thoughts, the one thing I am going to say is that you obviously have not been around very many beef cows or heifers/steers going to market. They are much more flighty than horses.

The docile cows that you see are dairy cows.

@Jasper -

You have some good thoughts, the one thing I am going to say is that you obviously have not been around very many beef cows or heifers/steers going to market. They are much more flighty than horses.

The docile cows that you see are dairy cows.

oh
no I haven’t been around many cows much.
I know they can be nervous creatures. My main point was that the care for horses and cows is different, and this is recognized in the transport to slaughter and processing, but again not really enforced.

oh
no I haven’t been around many cows much.
I know they can be nervous creatures. My main point was that the care for horses and cows is different, and this is recognized in the transport to slaughter and processing, but again not really enforced.

Jasper can you elaborate more on why you feel the transport of horses to slaughter and the transport of cattle to slaughter is different?

Is it any different? Enforced or not.

Jasper can you elaborate more on why you feel the transport of horses to slaughter and the transport of cattle to slaughter is different?

Is it any different? Enforced or not.

This is partly information I got off of the Fund For Horses website. I know horses cannot be transprted in double decker livestock trailors, but sometimes still are. This is rare, but it did happen at least once since it was outlawed. (I got that information about the transport. from a horse rescue website I forget the name right now)

This is partly information I got off of the Fund For Horses website. I know horses cannot be transprted in double decker livestock trailors, but sometimes still are. This is rare, but it did happen at least once since it was outlawed. (I got that information about the transport. from a horse rescue website I forget the name right now)

There may be more information at
http://www.manesandtailsorganization.org/captive_bolt.htm
I found it on another forum post that talks about the regulations for slaughtering horses and other animals.
It’s mentioned that horses are hard to restrain in the same ways you would restrain a cow in the killbox, because of their longer necks.

There may be more information at
http://www.manesandtailsorganization.org/captive_bolt.htm
I found it on another forum post that talks about the regulations for slaughtering horses and other animals.
It’s mentioned that horses are hard to restrain in the same ways you would restrain a cow in the killbox, because of their longer necks.

[...] I told you so moment – I posted this back in May – Horse Slaughter Bill and High Gas Prices add to this a drought that has also increased hay prices and you get the following statement from [...]

Excuse me Vicki, but do some research before you talk. You are correct cows do not run in the Kentucky Derby, but their are several cow racing associations. Cows do carry mounted police officers too. Cows work, cows perform, cows are used for therapy. And cows are companion animals. Cows are also used for meat and other products as should horses… besides horse meat is healthier.

Excuse me Vicki, but do some research before you talk. You are correct cows do not run in the Kentucky Derby, but their are several cow racing associations. Cows do carry mounted police officers too. Cows work, cows perform, cows are used for therapy. And cows are companion animals. Cows are also used for meat and other products as should horses… besides horse meat is healthier.

Paula

Cows are raised for consumption and that is a fact!!!! Horses are not an entree in this country !!! The good ol american cowboy( to quote a certain judge from a certain circuit court in Texas) never ended his ride in the wild west or anywhere by sitting down by his campfire and chowing down on his horse!!!!!

This discussion is about HORSE SLAUGHTER not cows pigs chickens or any other animal!!! If the moderator would stick to the topic it would be greatly appreciated by ALL !!!!!
THANK YOU

Paula

Cows are raised for consumption and that is a fact!!!! Horses are not an entree in this country !!! The good ol american cowboy( to quote a certain judge from a certain circuit court in Texas) never ended his ride in the wild west or anywhere by sitting down by his campfire and chowing down on his horse!!!!!

This discussion is about HORSE SLAUGHTER not cows pigs chickens or any other animal!!! If the moderator would stick to the topic it would be greatly appreciated by ALL !!!!!
THANK YOU

Mr Beatty

To help Jasper with the transport of horses issue….horses are taller than cattle !!! Making transport in double decker transports extremely cruel!!! BUT…YOU already knew that didn’t YOU Mr. Beatty???!!!!

Mr Beatty

To help Jasper with the transport of horses issue….horses are taller than cattle !!! Making transport in double decker transports extremely cruel!!! BUT…YOU already knew that didn’t YOU Mr. Beatty???!!!!

Maribel,

Not sure where your negativity towards me is coming from, I think you are presuming and making assumptions on my viewpoints without further reading this blog. As for sticking to topic, we are and everyone is allowed their opinion and making comparisons to the other animals that are slaughtered is on topic. As for the transport, I was going in a different direction but you do bring up a good point that they are taller, however I was referring to the stress that cattle go through on their transport to slaughter but that is OK.

Also for the record I do have a degree that does entitle me to the correct salutation of Dr, but I am also the father of four kids and their friends call me Mr. so I guess that is OK as well. Thank you for participating in this discussion you obviously are very passionate about this subject.

Maribel,

Not sure where your negativity towards me is coming from, I think you are presuming and making assumptions on my viewpoints without further reading this blog. As for sticking to topic, we are and everyone is allowed their opinion and making comparisons to the other animals that are slaughtered is on topic. As for the transport, I was going in a different direction but you do bring up a good point that they are taller, however I was referring to the stress that cattle go through on their transport to slaughter but that is OK.

Also for the record I do have a degree that does entitle me to the correct salutation of Dr, but I am also the father of four kids and their friends call me Mr. so I guess that is OK as well. Thank you for participating in this discussion you obviously are very passionate about this subject.

What will it be then Mr. or Dr.???? You have posted as Daniel Beatty DVM …if you wish to be addressed as Dr. then perhaps your salutation should say Dr. Daniel Beatty DVM ????

I have no negativity towards you??? I do not know you.I HAVE READ EVERY POST in this discussion. I disagree with you! The title of your article for discussion here is HORSE SLAUGHTER BILL and HIGH GAS PRICES…..not pig cow chicken BILL but HORSE SLAUGHTER BILL!!!

As a DVM then YOU KNOW the conditions that horses undergo in double decker transports which are designed for cows and other equine???? As a DVM you would be aware of that?? Then my assumptions would be correct??? You would be aware of the cruelty of it????

YES I am VERY PASSIONATE about this issue!!! Which is why I feel that allowing this discussion to go off in other tangents is not useful and is disrespectful of the legislation that has been introduced!!

MY OPINION and according to you …I’m allowed to voice it here ????

What will it be then Mr. or Dr.???? You have posted as Daniel Beatty DVM …if you wish to be addressed as Dr. then perhaps your salutation should say Dr. Daniel Beatty DVM ????

I have no negativity towards you??? I do not know you.I HAVE READ EVERY POST in this discussion. I disagree with you! The title of your article for discussion here is HORSE SLAUGHTER BILL and HIGH GAS PRICES…..not pig cow chicken BILL but HORSE SLAUGHTER BILL!!!

As a DVM then YOU KNOW the conditions that horses undergo in double decker transports which are designed for cows and other equine???? As a DVM you would be aware of that?? Then my assumptions would be correct??? You would be aware of the cruelty of it????

YES I am VERY PASSIONATE about this issue!!! Which is why I feel that allowing this discussion to go off in other tangents is not useful and is disrespectful of the legislation that has been introduced!!

MY OPINION and according to you …I’m allowed to voice it here ????

No posting, Dr. Daniel Beatty, DVM is redundant and incorrect.

And no you are missing the point of what I was saying about what the difference between cattle and horse transport is that it is not different. Both horses and cattle suffer during transport. I am not saying that it is right that we transport horses in double decker trailers because we shouldn’t be and there are laws already banning the use of double decker trailers in the US for transport of horses. My point was that transport of animals is stressful and that there is no difference between the two groups, especially considering horses being transported the majority of the time are not transported using double deckers.

As for your opinion it is absolutely welcomed here; however I am not going to censor other opinion when it relates to comparing horse slaughter to other animal slaughter. It is a valid comparison and is not a tangent and definitely not disrespectful. In the area of law it is common practice to compare one topic in legislation to other topics of similar substance to note similarities and differences and why one piece of legislation should be passed or not.

To think that there should be no comparison of horse slaughter to cattle slaughter is naive, because it has been done, is being done and will be done. You just did it yourself because the reason why cattle can be transported in double deckers and horses can not is because horses are taller.

No posting, Dr. Daniel Beatty, DVM is redundant and incorrect.

And no you are missing the point of what I was saying about what the difference between cattle and horse transport is that it is not different. Both horses and cattle suffer during transport. I am not saying that it is right that we transport horses in double decker trailers because we shouldn’t be and there are laws already banning the use of double decker trailers in the US for transport of horses. My point was that transport of animals is stressful and that there is no difference between the two groups, especially considering horses being transported the majority of the time are not transported using double deckers.

As for your opinion it is absolutely welcomed here; however I am not going to censor other opinion when it relates to comparing horse slaughter to other animal slaughter. It is a valid comparison and is not a tangent and definitely not disrespectful. In the area of law it is common practice to compare one topic in legislation to other topics of similar substance to note similarities and differences and why one piece of legislation should be passed or not.

To think that there should be no comparison of horse slaughter to cattle slaughter is naive, because it has been done, is being done and will be done. You just did it yourself because the reason why cattle can be transported in double deckers and horses can not is because horses are taller.

Then…what do you wish to be called??? Dr is wrong ….Mr is wrong????

My suggestion to you and ALL OTHERS who wish to defend their animal of choice is to lobby and get your own legislation.

The whole purpose of this legislation is to protect the horse who is and always has been a faithful companion animal in this country not an entree.

It would be nice to think that we have evolved as a species that we reward our faithful trusting companion animals with humane euthanasia when their time comes. Slaughter is slaughter and I’m sure YOU as a DVM know the difference and it isn’t pretty!!!

Comparing slaughter of animals raised for consumption to the brutal slaughter of a faithful trusting companion animal hardly seems fair to me !!! BUT this is YOUR BLOG !!! It obviously seems fair to you????? YOU allow it??

Then…what do you wish to be called??? Dr is wrong ….Mr is wrong????

My suggestion to you and ALL OTHERS who wish to defend their animal of choice is to lobby and get your own legislation.

The whole purpose of this legislation is to protect the horse who is and always has been a faithful companion animal in this country not an entree.

It would be nice to think that we have evolved as a species that we reward our faithful trusting companion animals with humane euthanasia when their time comes. Slaughter is slaughter and I’m sure YOU as a DVM know the difference and it isn’t pretty!!!

Comparing slaughter of animals raised for consumption to the brutal slaughter of a faithful trusting companion animal hardly seems fair to me !!! BUT this is YOUR BLOG !!! It obviously seems fair to you????? YOU allow it??

I was just trying to lighten up the conversation by pointing out that I am a doctor when you called me Mr….geez.

As for your passion it is getting in the way of some reasonable and rational conversation. I have no desire to pass legislation on abolishing slaughter in cattle. I just stated that it was a fair comparison when talking about the law. Your opinion is not the same as many others in this country that do not care about horses the way you and I do as a companion animal. It is a difference in opinion and tastes. The law has to be blind to those opinions and look at the problem as a matter of what is and what isn’t legal.

In this case it is a matter of inhumane treatment which is already illegal in this country, everything else is merely opinion which can support the case, but many times is not even considered. For example just because we do not eat horse meat in this country has no bearing on whether it should be legal to slaughter horses, because there are other industries that have products that are not used in this country and are exported to others. However the fact that a horse is being inhumanely killed by use of a captive bolt with no head restraint is inhumane and should be illegal. This practice should be abolished. Double decker hauling of horses is inhumane so should and has been abolished. the biggest problem I see with this law being passed is that it does infringe on the rights off others to do what they wish with their property. IF, and that is a very large if, the slaughter facilities were able to clean up their act an make the killing process more humane (I know kind of bizarre to think that killing can be humane but we do it a lot) this bill would be tossed out because it has no LEGAL leg to stand on. However with the large scale atrocities with the entire process I believe this law will be passed and with it will come some consequences, which are being felt right now because of some other concerns such as high fuel prices, high hay prices and lack of shavings in this area of the country. WHICH is what I have been arguing since I posted this back in MAY.

Also there are many horses that are not stolen, but rather raised specifically for slaughter. PMU foals in Canada – many of them are found to go to farms that are raising for horse meat. Very similar to the dairy industry here in which many of those calves born to milk cows are going to veal and other beef producing farms.

I was just trying to lighten up the conversation by pointing out that I am a doctor when you called me Mr….geez.

As for your passion it is getting in the way of some reasonable and rational conversation. I have no desire to pass legislation on abolishing slaughter in cattle. I just stated that it was a fair comparison when talking about the law. Your opinion is not the same as many others in this country that do not care about horses the way you and I do as a companion animal. It is a difference in opinion and tastes. The law has to be blind to those opinions and look at the problem as a matter of what is and what isn’t legal.

In this case it is a matter of inhumane treatment which is already illegal in this country, everything else is merely opinion which can support the case, but many times is not even considered. For example just because we do not eat horse meat in this country has no bearing on whether it should be legal to slaughter horses, because there are other industries that have products that are not used in this country and are exported to others. However the fact that a horse is being inhumanely killed by use of a captive bolt with no head restraint is inhumane and should be illegal. This practice should be abolished. Double decker hauling of horses is inhumane so should and has been abolished. the biggest problem I see with this law being passed is that it does infringe on the rights off others to do what they wish with their property. IF, and that is a very large if, the slaughter facilities were able to clean up their act an make the killing process more humane (I know kind of bizarre to think that killing can be humane but we do it a lot) this bill would be tossed out because it has no LEGAL leg to stand on. However with the large scale atrocities with the entire process I believe this law will be passed and with it will come some consequences, which are being felt right now because of some other concerns such as high fuel prices, high hay prices and lack of shavings in this area of the country. WHICH is what I have been arguing since I posted this back in MAY.

Also there are many horses that are not stolen, but rather raised specifically for slaughter. PMU foals in Canada – many of them are found to go to farms that are raising for horse meat. Very similar to the dairy industry here in which many of those calves born to milk cows are going to veal and other beef producing farms.

MY OPINION is the opinion of the majority .A VERY LARGE marjority!So the MANY others are not MANY. In a democratic society the majority rules does it not??? WE are supposed to be the most democratic country on the face of this earth?? WHY aren’t these bills being passed?? WE the american people have spoken…all our slaughter plants are closed!! WE don’t want OUR HORSES slaughtered here or anywhere else! WE WANT THESE BILLS PASSED!

I am sorry for coming down on you so strongly
but this is wrong if nothing else than for the fact that the horse is a revered companion animal in this country.It is nothing short of insane to think that the captive bolt is anything but inhumane.However towards the end right before it was closed Cavel in Illinois was slaughtering animals so quickly there is NO POSSIBLE WAY it could have been carried out humanely!You are right this industry has broken so many laws it does not deserve to exist!

If the door closes here on slaughter and transport for slaughter here in our country half of the slaughter houses in Canada will have to close too. Sad to say OUR HORSES are fueling their market.

It is just a matter of time until that PMU market ends.Women are becoming too wise about the dangers of ingesting foreign hormones into their bodies and who would ever think a horses urine would be compatible aka bio-identical. I have pharmacist friends. There are now much safer ways to deal with hormone imbalances which do not include the use of pregnant mares urine.I’m a breast cancer survivor I took artificial hormones for over 20yrs!! I speak from experience.

Dealing with the hay shortage issue etc. There are many people waiting to help.If horses are starving they should be reported to ASPCA or HSUS.I was just in conversation with HSUS a couple of weeks ago and it was mentioned that people need to ask for help before their animals are beyond help. You can’t get help if you don’t ask!

I assume as a DVM that you belong to AVMA??? Their is a group of DVM called Vets for Equine Welfare or VEW that have decided to stand up for the horses.IF you do not agree with the pro-slaughter stand of AVMA and what self-respecting DVM that believes in the oath he took could…perhaps you should consider joining VEW.

This will not be easy but I think if ALL of us make an effort ….supporting and encouraging responsible ownership and breeding…working with the many horse rescues and there are over 400 …NTRA has taken a more active role in retirement of it’s horses…safer track surfaces mean less injuries….laminitis research etc ….Working together with ALL concerned groups…We CAN do this!!

MY OPINION is the opinion of the majority .A VERY LARGE marjority!So the MANY others are not MANY. In a democratic society the majority rules does it not??? WE are supposed to be the most democratic country on the face of this earth?? WHY aren’t these bills being passed?? WE the american people have spoken…all our slaughter plants are closed!! WE don’t want OUR HORSES slaughtered here or anywhere else! WE WANT THESE BILLS PASSED!

I am sorry for coming down on you so strongly
but this is wrong if nothing else than for the fact that the horse is a revered companion animal in this country.It is nothing short of insane to think that the captive bolt is anything but inhumane.However towards the end right before it was closed Cavel in Illinois was slaughtering animals so quickly there is NO POSSIBLE WAY it could have been carried out humanely!You are right this industry has broken so many laws it does not deserve to exist!

If the door closes here on slaughter and transport for slaughter here in our country half of the slaughter houses in Canada will have to close too. Sad to say OUR HORSES are fueling their market.

It is just a matter of time until that PMU market ends.Women are becoming too wise about the dangers of ingesting foreign hormones into their bodies and who would ever think a horses urine would be compatible aka bio-identical. I have pharmacist friends. There are now much safer ways to deal with hormone imbalances which do not include the use of pregnant mares urine.I’m a breast cancer survivor I took artificial hormones for over 20yrs!! I speak from experience.

Dealing with the hay shortage issue etc. There are many people waiting to help.If horses are starving they should be reported to ASPCA or HSUS.I was just in conversation with HSUS a couple of weeks ago and it was mentioned that people need to ask for help before their animals are beyond help. You can’t get help if you don’t ask!

I assume as a DVM that you belong to AVMA??? Their is a group of DVM called Vets for Equine Welfare or VEW that have decided to stand up for the horses.IF you do not agree with the pro-slaughter stand of AVMA and what self-respecting DVM that believes in the oath he took could…perhaps you should consider joining VEW.

This will not be easy but I think if ALL of us make an effort ….supporting and encouraging responsible ownership and breeding…working with the many horse rescues and there are over 400 …NTRA has taken a more active role in retirement of it’s horses…safer track surfaces mean less injuries….laminitis research etc ….Working together with ALL concerned groups…We CAN do this!!

when I first started reading your post I thought “that is inhumane, leave the poor horses alone!” but when I reached the end I imagined myself on the road and suddenly finding 20 horses in front of me and I realized that the bill was necessary, executed as humanly as possible though. Thanks

when I first started reading your post I thought “that is inhumane, leave the poor horses alone!” but when I reached the end I imagined myself on the road and suddenly finding 20 horses in front of me and I realized that the bill was necessary, executed as humanly as possible though. Thanks